DR. JULIA HURLOW ON HOW PHYSICAL PAIN CAN SURPRISINGLY BRING YOU TO AUTHENTIC COMMUNITY

[DAWN GABRIEL]
Hi, I’m Dawn Gabriel, host of Faith Fringes Podcast, recording live from Castle Rock Colorado, not only where I love to live, but I also work as the owner of a counseling center in the historic downtown. This podcast is a place to explore more than the traditional norms of the Christian culture. For those desiring deeper connection with God and engaging their spirituality in new ways, this will be a safe place to allow doubt, questions and curiosity, without judgment. We will be creating intentional space to listen in on other’s faith journeys, whether that is deconstruction or reconstruction, with the hope of traveling alongside you on your own spiritual path. If you’re interested in getting even more out of this podcast, grab my free email course Spiritual Reflections on my websitefaithfringes.com. Welcome to the podcast.

Welcome back fellow spiritual explorers. I’m so excited to have you here today. And I’ve been noticing as I’ve been talking to people in my life or even just people around as I’m grocery shopping, people are asking like, “Hey, what’s this for?” And like when I was getting my headshots for this podcast, and I was telling people, I’m doing a podcast on spirituality outside of the traditional norms. And as I explain it to people, I’m noticing that people are getting really excited about spirituality. It’s not shocking or surprising, but it’s a little bit because sometimes I think people don’t want to talk about it, but especially in this day and age, I find that people are actually coming back to a spiritual place. I’ve found that with pain or tragedy happening in life, it makes people go to a spiritual place and ask deeper questions and try to get grounding on a deeper place, more than their circumstances.
[DAWN]
So today I have a guest who’s going to be speaking into that and I’m so excited to have her here. Her name is Dr. Julia Hurlow, and I’m so excited because Julia and I worked together at a university back in Indiana and we were just talking before and we realized it’s been at least a decade since we’ve seen each other, but I’ve been following her on Instagram. She has actually just authored a book that I’m so excited for her to talk about that as well and it’s a wonderful book. I just resonate with it so much. And so I just want to introduce Julia. She is an avid traveler, nationally and internationally while currently residing in a rural neighborhood in Indiana. Creating spaces for people to gather, share meals and explore the outdoors in all seasons are essential elements for her. Life’s rhythms. With a degree in counseling, as well as a doctorate and semiotics and future studies, she appreciates finding redemptive meaning through remembering, lamenting and celebrating. Her current work as an assistant professor at a university entails educating, offering spiritual direction, speaking and writing. Julia, welcome to Faith Fringes Podcast.
[JULIA HURLOW]
Thank you so much. It’s so good to be here today.
[DAWN]
Yes, I’m so excited. And I first want to ask you, can you explain what does it mean, a doctorate in semiotics and future studies? I’m so curious.
[JULIA]
Sure. The word semiotic means signs and symbols. And so the doctorate was all about creating meaning in the world and what that looks like to create meaning in the world as followers of Jesus, as well as how media and signs and symbols affect our understanding of how we engage in the world.
[DAWN]
Wow. That is so interesting. I actually have never heard of that type of doctorate. How did you come into that? Or how did you find out about it?
[JULIA]
Sure. I have read quite a bit of Dr. Leonard Sweet over the last, I don’t know, probably a decade or so. And he is the lead professor of this program at George Fox University through the Portland Seminary and to have the opportunity to learn as a student of his was really important to me. The opportunity to learn from someone who has been in the field and a wise guide in this area of study was really important. And so I looked into multiple different programs and this is where I landed. So it was a wonderful experience.
[DAWN]
I love it. And I imagine that a lot of that went into your new book Transcendence at The Table. As I read it, it was just so beautiful on connecting what the table means to you. Did that have a big part of it?
[JULIA]
It did. Our program was created in such a way that we were able to work on our dissertation as we were doing school. So throughout the three years that I was in school, we were working on that project and the table has always been really significant in my life and understanding how to engage God as well as other people. And so that became my semiotic experience; was what does it look like to be at the table?
[DAWN]
Oh, I love it. And that’s what I resonate so much with. I’ve found over the years that one of my passions is just kind of like being hospitable and having people over for dinner and, or just like hosting an event at my house and there always involves food. And so I totally resonated with that when I was reading and just powerful conversations that have happened around the table. And for me even around a cup of chai, that’s like my favorite thing, everybody knows me, knows that we will go drink a cup of chai and have a good conversation.
[JULIA]
I love that. I remember that back when we were working together in Indiana. I do remember that about you and then there was still chai involved.
[DAWN]
That’s hilarious. Well, and as we’re talking about today, about how pain or doubt or hurt, sometimes that can be a very spiritual experience as we’re going through it, or even after and reflecting back. Have you noticed that in your life?
[JULIA]
Definitely have. I think through the years of multiple places where there’s been disappointment or where there’s been pain or where there’s been, whether that’s physical or spiritual or emotional, there’s space each of those times to encounter God and to encounter God in that process without believing that God causes that yet at the same time, God is present in the midst of that.
[DAWN]
Yes. I think that’s really important you saying that because as a therapist, I sit with people usually and some of their darkest moments and in their pain and I noticed some people tend to go away from God and some people tend to draw closer to Him, or it’s a mix of both. Like it’s a journey of both. One of my favorite quotes from C. S. Lewis is that God uses pain as a megaphone sometimes into our lives.
[JULIA]
That’s excellent. It really does show where God is in the midst of that.
[DAWN]
Yes, that He’s there, even though He didn’t cause it, or even though He allowed it. So yes. Why don’t you tell us, is there a specific time in your life that you can think of when this comes up, that you knew this is where I did meet God and this pain or hurt?
[JULIA]
Sure. I can remember the first time that that was a part of my story was when I actually was about 13-years-old and I started having significant back pain. And growing up I didn’t have, had not had something specific happened, but I started noticing that I started having significant back pain. Lo and behold, that would be then, the next 14 years of my life, I would have multiple treatments, multiple surgeries, multiple injections, multiple experiences with what it would look like to identify where the pain was in my body. My lower back started to tear, my disc started deteriorating and my lower back as I entered into my twenties. And through that process, I started realizing that it was the first time I had encountered something external that was painful that was unanswered. I grew up in the church and I grew up in an environment where there was a lot of question around healing and what does that mean to experience healing?

I often remember going forward at church and having people pray over me and ask if there was sin in my life or where I was doubting God. And I remember thinking I’m just a teenager who wants to follow Jesus. I don’t know what this looks like to engage in so much pain. That began a really significant journey with my relationship with God to believe that God didn’t cause the pain, but God was a part of that process. And when I was in college then is when I ended up having back surgery and I had disc fusion surgery. And through that process, I realized that there was an incredible opportunity over those 14 years of significant life development, relationally and physically, emotionally, as well as spiritually of what does it mean to integrate pain into the midst of my life, even if it’s not going away and for an unforeseen amount of time, I was going to be insignificant pain on a daily basis.
[DAWN]
Wow. And that, I feel like that’s such a deep lesson for the age you are. You said it started at 13 and then you struggled with it for 14 years. But even in those years, like that is such a deep thing to notice. I mean, most people are like running from pain, like, “I’m going to avoid pain and I’m going to try to control it.” But you were saying that you kind of noticed, “How do I live with pain or in spite of pain?”
[JULIA]
There were times throughout that process that I think my experience did seem so atypical to most of my friends and actually to anyone that I knew at that age. But I started realizing that we all have a story of pain and there’s places in our own stories, whether it’s back pain or whether it’s something else, there’s is an opportunity to engage one another. There’s a quote by Barbara Brown Taylor that says “My body is what connects me to all of these other people. Wearing my skin is not a solitary practice, but one that brings me into communion with all of these other embodied souls.” And I thought about that so often as I was getting older in the process of realizing this is an opportunity for me to experience pain in my own life, it was physical, but to engage in that with other people in an embodied way.
[DAWN]
Wow. I love that. I love that quote. You read by Barbara what, who is it? Barbara Brown Taylor.
[JULIA]
Correct? Yep.
[DAWN]
Wow. That our pain connects us with other people. I’ve never looked at it that way.
[JULIA]
She has a phenomenal book called An Altar in the World and it’s connected to the idea that we consistently bump into and our shins should be bruised in the midst of bumping into how God shows up in the world. And I think that that, as I moved through that space of my story in my late teens and early twenties, that I would have the opportunity to experience communion with other people out of a place of saying, “I am created in the image of communion and the image of belonging of who God is and believing that for everyone that I encountered.”
[DAWN]
And do you think that you might not have been able to look at community that way with people without the pain?
[JULIA]
Completely. I think that that was the window in which I started realizing everyone else in the world had “a backstory.” And literally mine was my physical back. But as I continued to walk and engage with people is that there is something that is our backstory that’s affecting how we understand the world, how we understand ourselves and how we interact or don’t interact with the triune of God.
[DAWN]
Yes. I love that, because I often, that’s one of my big passions is you can’t judge someone until you hear their story, until you hear their back pain story. I mean, it just defines so much of who they are and how they experience life. And once you understand and listen to someone, I feel like it changes your relationship with them in a positive way when you understand their story.
[JULIA]
I a hundred percent agree. That’s really well said.
[DAWN]
Yes. Wow. So tell me more about, you said kind of in your twenties, was that when you were in college, is when you kind of realized, and was it like an epiphany or was it like a longer journey to realize this?
[JULIA]
I think there was, it was probably my sophomore year of college when I started realizing that, I mean I was consistent, I was in physical pain all the time. I did not know a time by that point in my life where I had not experienced pain and I didn’t want to talk about it. And that was a significant part of my story of recognizing that I really wanted to experience freedom, but I didn’t know that part of being free was to be able to voice the pain that I was experiencing. And I kept thinking I’m going to be so misunderstood and people aren’t going to understand that. I don’t know exactly how this started. I’ve been in at that point, I’d had back pain for about 10 years and they didn’t really know exactly what to do to move forward. And it would be in those next couple years of college that I really started praying that God would give me freedom and in that freedom, I really wanted to understand what it meant to live a John 10:10 life, that we’re meant to have life to the fullest.

I really was curious about what that looked like and prayed for a few years about that process. And then it was the end of my junior year of college was then, when finally my discs were identified as they were bulging and that they would essentially rupture at that point in my lower back. I ended up with back surgery between my junior and senior year of college and that summer I sat essentially on a wooden chair and was healing for six weeks and engaging in the process of, “I’m so young and why is this happening and what is happening?” And it was in that time and in that season of my life that I really started to put together some of the pieces of that story, of understanding pain that was around me. I had read a book by Henry Nouwen and called The Wounded Healer and that was the book that was the invitation I think that God used to say, “Julia, how are you going to walk with other people in the midst of their stories, in the midst of their pain, some of the uncovering of people’s pain, as well as in the work that I do. Similar to what you’re saying, I sit with people in a really vulnerable crucible moments of their lives. And what does that look like? Do you do that grace and with mercy and with kindness to actually sit among other people as a way to embody the spirit and the spirits of love for people.
[DAWN]
Wow. Yes, I so resonate with that. Like the compassion and the mercy and grace to sit with someone because you’ve journeyed through pain, physical or emotional, yourself, I think is so huge and so important. It makes you more human, more compassionate and wow, I’m just so that you learned that at such a young age. I think so many people, it takes like a lifetime to kind of get that, but you were experiencing this in college. And I remember talking to you a little bit about your back pain back then, but I didn’t realize that was the first time you were speaking about it and that you kind of suffered by yourself for so long, like keeping it internal.
[JULIA]
I think there were so many years that I just thought, “I don’t want to be a burden to anyone and I don’t want to be a burden in someone else’s story and I don’t want to create any chaos for anyone.” I remember hearing a therapist say when, at one point when I was in college, he would say that we are all burdens at different times in our lives, but we’re choosing to be a burden to one or choosing to be a burden to another person and we’re choosing to carry the burden with another person. And I remember thinking, “Oh yes, there are going to be times in my life that I’m a burden and other people can choose to be part of that with me. Although it’s mine to carry there’s other people who can join in that space of communion and space have shared together even in the midst of pain.” And I think that that’s one of the most challenging things about pain; is that sometimes it’s self-inflicted and at other times things happen to us or just out of natural causes. And those questions that can rise from that we are created in the image of community and I think we need to have that experience to share that in community.
[DAWN]
Yes, and sometimes it goes against everything we feel. Like it feels scary and wrong to be that vulnerable to someone else, but yet once you experience it, it is so healing and what we were created for, like you said, in the image of God, the triune of God. He shows us community in the Trinity and so we completely were made for community, but yet we often push against that. We don’t want to go there. We don’t want to appear weak, or we don’t want to be that needy friend. But yet I love whoever said that to you. I love that we all are going to be needy at some point and be a burden and you get to choose who you let into that space. I think that’s so true and so needed because a lot of us in America are like, “No, we’re, we have to be like these lone rangers.”
[JULIA]
And we’ve created some kind of cultural dynamic that says that that is welcomed or that that’s received. And in the reality, I think, as we think about how Jesus engaged with his disciples, there were space for his disciples to not know, or if his disciples to ask questions. And I think that there’s a space for us to acknowledge that Jesus was never afraid of his disciples questions and he would answer them. And in the Genesis story, when God walked towards Adam and Eve, when they made the choices that they made and God’s response was, “Where are you?” And I think that there’s a kindness that’s connected to the choices that we make or the questions we have that we can truly experience or where the spirit can intercede on our behalf of how are we going to engage that and how are we going to move forward in that process to come towards the Trinity rather than against the Trinity. And I think that’s a model for how we can engage with one another in that process as well.
[DAWN]
Yes. I love that. What would you say to someone who maybe is still more in the hurt, and they’re not really believing that there can be hope in that. They’re more in the scared, like, “I can’t reach out. I don’t know where God is in this pain.” What could you say to them maybe during this time?
[JULIA]
I think take the next step. In 2017, I had the opportunity to go to Spain and to hike on the Camino and that was a significant experience in my life, based on the fact that I’d had back pain for so long and have even come out of a season. That was a short season of continued back pain that kind of resurfaced, about six months before I was supposed to leave for the trip. And I remember starting physical therapy and my physical therapist said, “Well, what do you want to do? What’s your goal in this process?” And I said, “I want to go and walk the Camino. I want to engage in this process and I don’t know if my body can be trusted.” And he said, “If that’s your goal, we’re going to get you there.” And it was day in and day out of pretty grueling physical therapy in that process and a lot of preparation moving up towards that point.

But I looked back at the end of the trip when we were completely done, approximately 200 miles had been covered and I looked back and I thought it was one step at a time. And every single day we would get on the trail, there were five of us that went and we would hike individually or we’d hike collective sometimes. But in that process every day, I had no idea what the trail would hold. I didn’t know the elevation we were climbing. I knew the route enough to know the way we were going and where we would end up for that day, but every single day, it was a matter of taking one step and then the next, and then the next. And for 14 days, that was the journey that I was on. And I will forever think back to that experience, that formational experience of how that mirrors and parallels to the life that I hope to live now, that even if I don’t know what’s ahead, or I don’t know what’s coming, I can take the next step.

And there were days, it was torrential downpour. There were days that we were wet to the bone and there were days it was so hot. The heat index was rising during that time we were there. There were moments that we were in the sun longer than I would hope to be in the sun. And consistently in the process, there were moments where we would just say, “Take the next step.” And so I think about in life and in the things that we’re questioning, or we don’t understand, or we don’t even know if there is a way forward. I think about the phrase that Jan Richardson says in one of her poems, she says “Hope, nonetheless.” And I think that that’s a space that I held in the day-to-day, step-by-step to hope, nonetheless. And that is something that seems transcendent to the calling that’s upon each of our lives, is that there’s something greater happening outside of our understanding.
[DAWN]
Oh, yes, I have goosebumps as you’re talking about that experience. You’re talking my language when you’re talking about hiking a trail, but just so many transformational moments you are saying where take the next step, hope, nonetheless. I love those statements that you were clinging to. And at first I’m sure people are like, “oh, she hiked the Camino in Spain.” It sounds like glorious and rainbows and unicorns, but you were saying there’s torrential downpour, the heat index was crazy, you were exhausted and your back, like, I’m sure, was it in pain during that trip or was there up and downs? Like, what was that like?
[JULIA]
Sure. There was a sustained level of grace, I think in that process. I definitely felt like there were moments where my back was, I was thinking, “I don’t know why I’m doing this.” And I think my back was probably wondering the same thing, at the same time that we get to each set our own pace and we can be in our own pace. And so again, like I said, there were a number of us that had gone on the trip and every day we would show up and we would meet people in different towns and along the way, and they would be so kind in their presence and in their hospitality to welcome us with a glass of water or to sit down and have a glass of wine and spend time and each other’s presence. And I think that day in and day out, overshadowed any physical pain that was present because I like to be outside, but I’m not an crate.

I’m not an avid hiker in the sense that this is a daily or normal activity for me. I also live in Indiana, so that does limit my day to day, but I’m a walker and I must show up each day in the midst of that and do it together. And so I think that there was a consistent reminder of that in that process, that there’s a space to be together. At the same time, there were hours and hours that I would hike alone. And there was something majestic about that in the sense of saying, “I have no idea exactly how this day is going to turn out, but I do know that I am not created in the image of being alone. I’m in the image, I’m creating the image of belonging.” And so there’s space for me to know that there’s connection to God, even through the connection to the earth.
[DAWN]
Wow. My head is exploding on all the analogies you can draw from this one trip or just hiking the trail of, like you said, not being alone, sometimes hiking alone, but knowing that you would gather with the four others at the end or the beginning of each day, and just, yes, I just keep thinking, “Wow, I would go back to that trip over and over in my head.” It’s such a life lesson to keep going. And then something about being outside, it’s just truly spiritual to me. And it sounds like that was a truly spiritual moment for you, not just that trail, but other times you said you love being outside and it’s essential in your rhythms of life.
[JULIA]
Right. And I think in the midst of pain, each of us individually, will find the things that are formational and the things that will help us to take a break or just stop the cycle that we are in, or the spaces that we’re in mentally, or that we’re thinking. There’s not another way. And I think even if it’s an hour alone, or if it’s two hours alone or half a day, or to be able to go on some kind of overnight retreat by yourself, I think there’s space to engage with God in your own skin and in your own space to say, “Where am I and how can I take this step forward?” So it was dreamy and there’s magical things about Spain. There’s also a lot of painful things about Spain as well. And I think that to have that many hours and space and time alone, you also realize we’re pilgrims in a really challenging culture and in a space that it has a lot of unknowns.

And so I think the more comfortable we can become within ourselves with God in the midst of our pain, then there’s space for that. I also think there’s times of silence. And even if it means that they’re spaces, that we’re not even sure what the next right step is, I think to take a step and to do that within community. Rachel Held Evans has a wonderful quote that I go back to quite often, and she says that it’s easier to remember things together than alone. And that’s why I think the communal space is so important to have other people who know our story and who know what that larger story looks like, because they’ll walk with us and they’ll stay with us in that space. And so I think whatever we can do to disrupt the ordinary, to create a new rhythm of a sacred liturgy or some kind of process would be really helpful in the midst of pain or questions that we find ourselves in on this journey.
[DAWN]
Yes. Can you say more about what is sacred liturgy and what is a rhythm and say more about that creating space for those things?
[JULIA]
Sure. I think that I, growing up heard so much about “spiritual disciplines” and a discipline to me, felt like I was in trouble and failing, and I felt so corrected consistently whenever I would think about that. And I have utmost respect for Richard Foster and the work that he’s done around spiritual practices. And I have really been grateful for that, those tools and nuances that are connected to that. But I think that we have done a disservice when we think about scripture in the passages that talk about God disciplines the ones He loves. Because in the Greek, that word discipline actually means educates and so God educates the ones that God loves. And I think that that is really significant to our spiritual journey of creating the sacred liturgy, because a liturgy has a rhythm and a cadence and something that’s goes on and on and on with a rhythm and a beat, or there’s something it that has a connection to how we live our lives.

And I think that when we find that in our own personal life, out of joy and receiving of an invitation to join that process, there’s something profound that happens. It moves us from a place of thinking, “I’m in trouble,” to, “I long for this.” It’s the idea of what takes place in the lens and moving towards Easter and towards the resurrection. That it’s not about, “I have to take something away just for the sake of taking it away, but I’m taking something out of my life in order to add something to my life, to create life and to cultivate that space in my life.” That’s truly going to create the peaceful Shalom that were intended for. And so I find that that is something that’s so specific in my own life that I found even in one of the sacred liturgies; is I try every day to sit for 20 minutes.

I just set a timer on my phone and I sit in silence and to let there be space each day to navigate what is here, what’s in front of me? And out of that space, I try to acknowledge what do I need to do to move forward, to move my body towards the things that are going to be the things that are going to create that formation in my life, that’s going to transcend me from my ordinary experience into something that is eternal and it looks like heaven? I think that the Lord’s prayer is beautiful when it talks about the reality that what’s in heaven could be on earth. And I want to experience that joy in the fruitfulness of earth. And so how can I then be a participant in responding and receiving that invitation to have the life that’s meant for the fullest?
[DAWN]
Yes. I have a really good friend who we were, I’m in a group of five women and we meet regularly to kind of discuss spiritual things. And we were talking about how sometimes the enemy tricks us into thinking we can only have joy in heaven, and we can only have perfection in heaven and we kind of get lost in that and life can be pain and hard, but like what you were saying, no, there’s an invitation for freedom here on earth, and we can have peace and we can have joy and we can live a full life here. And just the wording you were using is so different than how I was raised, like the discipline and the, like you said, discipline creates so much like physical response even, but like you were saying words like longing and invitation and the rhythm is different. That just sounds so different than, “Here’s the checkoff list you have to do. Get up and do your devotions every day and you have to go to church three times a week.” It takes it away from the to-do list and I love that the look of an invitation and a longing to connect and live more freely spiritually with God here on earth.
[JULIA]
Yes. That’s beautiful. I appreciate even you modeling that of saying we meet regularly to talk about these ideas and spiritual things and that practice, because I do think it’s out of our daily rhythms of how we live that truly represent what God intended for us.
[DAWN]
Yes. Yes, and even as you were speaking about it, it was encouraging me, like I’ve gotten out of my rhythms with, you know, I don’t know when people are listening to this podcast, but we just ended a full year of COVID pandemic and we’re entering a second year of it. And I find that rhythms have been so hard and I’ve been all over the place and discombobulated by remote learning and then they’re going back to school and then things are shut down and my rhythms are out of whack. And so I know in talking with people, the stress and the overwhelm is so intense in trying to kind of get back to what do we need? Like, even if it’s, like you said, just 20 minutes of silence to collect yourself and notice what is going on in my body, what is going on in my head, my feelings, and just notice. It’s so powerful just to have even five minutes of silence a day would be powerful.
[JULIA]
Right. And when we start engaging in those spaces of silence, we can also expand our experiences. That’s why I care so much about the table, because we do show up at the table and when we’re hungry, physically. We know that’s, eat something. That’s what we do to satisfy. And they think about that space of the parallel that Jesus offered at the last supper, that was a space of breaking bread and drinking wine and communion, as a way to remember the larger story, to repent in saying, “Do this in remembrance of me. Do this as a way of repenting of where we need to have unification and then do this as a way of celebrating.” And to think about that on a daily basis, that we do have space to remember, and to repent and to celebrate based out of the Jewish culture, breaking bread and drinking wine at every meal as part of that process, because there’s a space for the joy and the sorrow to be together. And to almost engage that on a daily basis, allows us to engage in a way to understand and create new understandings in the midst of our losses or the midst of our joys. And how do we do that with one another?
[DAWN]
Oh, yes. Again, it just reminds me of another C. S. Lewis quote, where he said “The pain now was the joy then of just speaking about…,” He was actually speaking about his wife was dying from cancer. And he knew that when he married her, but he wanted the, he chose joy and he knew he was also choosing pain. There’s both. And yes, just how much of life there is both in and embracing both sides of that. And another person you quoted Henry Nouwen, who is one of my favorite authors and spiritual directors, in his book, The Inner Voice of Love. Have you read that one, Julia?
[JULIA]
Yes. Oh that’s probably my, I don’t know if you have a favorite C. S. Lewis book, but I think that is, if I had to have one.
[DAWN]
Oh, yes, The Inner Voice of Love by Henry Nouwen is so powerful and he just talks about sitting in your pain, but also experiencing great healing from that and love. Oh yes, you’re speaking some freedom to me today, Julia.
[JULIA]
Well, it’s encouraging to be in the midst of someone who understands this process and also loves it as well.
[DAWN]
Well, tell us a little bit more, as we’re kind of getting to the end, tell us a little bit more about your book. If listeners want to know, like, what am I going to get when I pick up Transcendence at The Table by Dr. Julia Hurlow, what are they going to find in that book.
[JULIA]
Sure, that’s really kind. I hope that you would find that this book is an opportunity to experience invitation of what the larger story is of the table. I think there are so many books that have been wonderfully crafted about small groups around the table or having a meal together, setting the table. But the hope for this book is to merge. What does it mean to experience communion as God intended through Jesus, as an example, and the daily breaking of bread together? And so that idea of invitation and participation and celebration and communication around the table. The hope would be is that people would engage in a deeper understanding of our own individual why, in the sense of our longing to be at the table, as well as what we’re willing to show up with in the midst of other people’s why at their table as well. So I think often we know what we’re doing, we’re sharing a meal, but I’m often curious why are we doing what we’re doing? And my hope would be that there would be a deeper invitation to model what Jesus intended to experience communion with one another on a daily basis.
[DAWN]
Yes, it is such a great book of invitation. I would highly recommend it. And I think Julia, you mentioned you are going to have a giveaway of your book. What do people need to do if they are interested in winning a free copy of your book?
[JULIA]
Sure. You are welcome to follow me on social media. I’m on Instagram at Julia Hurlow and on Facebook as well. If you want to direct message me and let me know something you’ve learned or a question that you have, I’d be more than happy to send to the first listener, whoever it is, that first person, a free copy of the book, if that would be something you’d be interested in. So I’d be happy to extend the joy of sharing that. As well as I have a website juliahurlow.com and I have weekly emails that I send out on Tuesdays, specifically around the table and the hope for there to be a quote or kind of resource that’s handed out as a way to connect people deeper into what it means to be at the table.
[DAWN]
That is so kind. Thank you for offering that to my listeners. It’s been such a joy to have you on here and it makes me want to go do a hike with you or sit down at a table and drink a cup of chai for sure. So yes, let me know if you’re in Colorado or if I come to Indiana, we got to hook up and do a hike.
[JULIA]
That sounds excellent. So thanks so much for having me today, Dawn. It’s good to talk with you.
[DAWN]
Thank you so much, Julia.

Thank you for listening today at Faith Fringes Podcast. If you want to explore more of your own faith journey, I offer my free eight-week email course called Spiritual Reflections, where you take a deeper dive into your own story included as a journaling workbook that has guided exercises. So if you want to explore more of what you were brought up to believe, or even look at where you may have been disillusioned or hurt, but yet still deep down you desire to authentically connect with God, then this course is for you. Just go to faithfringes.com to sign up.

Also, I love hearing from my listeners, drop me an email and tell me what’s on your mind. You can reach me at dawn@faithfringes.com. Faith Fringes is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Faith in Practice, Beta Male Revolution, Empowered and Unapologetic or Impact Driven Leader, go to the website, www.practiceofthepractice.com/network.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.