WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WORLDS OF BUSINESS AND THERAPY COLLIDE, WITH ALISON PIDGEON, LPC | EP 64

[DAWN GABRIEL]
Hi, I’m Dawn Gabriel, your host of Faith Fringes podcast, recording live from Castle Rock, Colorado. I am a licensed professional counselor, owner of a counseling center and a sacred space holder for fellow therapists. This podcast is for those who want to explore more than the traditional norms of the Christian culture. I create intentional space to explore your own spiritual path, a space that allows doubt, questions and curiosity without the judgment or shame, a place to hear another story and dive deeper into how to have a genuine connection with God.

For my fellow therapist listening, I will often pull back the curtain of our layered inner world that comes with our profession. I bring an authentic and experienced way to engage your spiritual journey in order to connect you with your deepest values for true renewal and soul care. But really this podcast is for anyone listening who’s desiring a deeper and genuine connection with God. For those of you wanting to engage your spirituality in new ways, Faith Fringes is for you. Welcome to the podcast.

Hello, welcome back to Faith Fringes podcast. This is Dawn Gabriel, your host, and this is episode 64. I am still doing a series on the Therapist Matrix because I’m so passionate about really getting the word out there to group practice owners or even therapists in general who really are struggling with that internal conflict when they look at their world, look at how their worlds collide and I just feel like we have so much internally going on that we really need some safe place to talk about it. So what I’m doing is just naming the process, naming these things so you don’t feel alone and you don’t feel that you can’t figure it out, and that you don’t get too overwhelmed where you stop doing what you’ve been called to do or what you feel passionate about doing, but that you can move forward through it.

That’s why I’m naming it the Therapist Matrix. We are talking a lot about it on this podcast and today I’m very excited to have the guest, Alison Pidgeon. I’ve known her for a few years. She has been a consultant and she owns a bunch of different businesses. I just love listening to her and picking her brain and asking her questions because she has so much to offer and give and she has thought it through. Today we are going to discuss more how the business sector and the therapist sector collide. She breaks down what she has seen when working with therapists and how those two hats are in conflict with one another and how she has worked through it personally and how she’s helped others work through it. It’s going to be really cool to listen in on our conversation.

Before we do that, I wanted to say, if you are listening and you realize, I need a place to talk about that, I want to let you know that I am starting another mastermind. I call it Sacred Space Mastermind and it is a place where therapists can come, we can talk about growing our business, but we also enter into the spiritual realm, which I think is another sector of the matrix; is when we realize how does the spiritual realm intersect, how does it, how do I hold space for that as well as all the other things I’m doing. For me, as you know, because I talk about it a lot, that is one of my grounding factors and grounding values. So if that’s something that is grounding to you, I want to invite you to join me and a few other group practice owners for the Sacred Space Mastermind.

I’m going to be launching another one in the fall. I’m already in the middle of one now and I am loving it. People are saying that they are getting so much out of it, and honestly, I’ll be honest, it’s not a hundred percent business-focused because I think we are more than just therapists and we need to look holistically at ourselves and holistically at all the roles we carry. So it is about looking at all of that but oftentimes I find that people who have more of a spiritual and faith-based value and grounding, they really find true soul care and true refreshment and renewal when we do hold space for that spiritual side of us. Well actually, I think the spiritual is everywhere and so when we give that more space and more voice in our life and we allow God to interact with us there, especially about our business, it’s amazing what happens.

That’s what we do in our mastermind. So it is a mixture of, we share where we are at with our group practice, but we also share where we are at spiritually and what we’re wanting and hoping to hear and enter in together. It’s a beautiful time. The cool thing is when you do join the Mastermind, it also secures a spot at the Soul Care Retreat here in Colorado. This Soul Care Retreat is specifically for therapists. I have a few different venues I use, but this next one coming up in February is going to be at a beautiful place in Divide, Colorado. This place has a few hot tubs, it’s nestled in the woods, it has I think like 30 some acres to hike. It has a prayer labyrinth that has a prayer trail but just it’s a sacred space. I’ve been there before. It’s actually what launched me into my own soul care practice when I started hearing more about soul care and learning and I started my journey, is I was at a soul care day there and I just find the place to be sacred ground.

You can just tell it’s peaceful. There’s a lodge, they actually call it the barn. It used to be an alpaca barn that they’ve turned into this beautiful retreat setting. You can stay the night there. Then there’s also like huge fireplace, cozy chairs, there’s a library. It’s just a beautiful place, a kitchen shared living space and we just, we’re all going to go there and just talk and unload what’s going on in our lives as therapists and deal with everything that we need to let go of in a safe place with other therapists who get it. If that is something you are interested in, you can either reach out to me about the Sacred Space Mastermind, which will automatically include a place for you in that retreat or you can just come to the retreat, which is the Soul Care Retreat for therapist. Either one, if you’re interested in that, just reach out to me, dawn@faithfringes.com or if you have my phone number, go ahead and text me. I would love to talk to you more about yes, getting involved with either mastermind or coming on the retreat with us. If February is not soon enough, I do have a few more spots left in my September, 2022 retreat here in Colorado as well. Reach out to me about either one of those retreats.

Okay, so let’s get back to Alison as we talk about what it looks like when we are trying to hold space as being a business owner and a therapist and how sometimes those don’t interact as well. Help me welcome Alison to the podcast. Alison, welcome to the podcast.
[ALISON PIDGEON]
Hi Dawn, thanks so much for having me.
[DAWN]
Yes, I am so excited to have you here. I would love for you to start by just introducing yourself and telling my listeners a little bit about you and what you do.
[ALISON]
Absolutely. I am Alison Pigeon. I’m a licensed professional counselor in Pennsylvania. In 2015, I started a group practice called Move Forward Counseling and in the past seven years we’ve grown tremendously. By the fall we will probably have about 50 employees. I have also done other sort of entrepreneurial things along the way. I owned a virtual assistant company for a while that actually just sold. I was doing business consulting for the past six years and transitioning out of doing that now and also into real estate investing. So I own one of the buildings that the counseling practice is in. Just love all things business. I also have three kids and a husband and drive a minivan very proudly.
[DAWN]
I love it. I know, that’s so much easier when you have more kids because it’s way easier to get in and out, I’ve heard. I haven’t got there yet.
[ALISON]
It’s like living room on wheels.
[DAWN]
That’s awesome. Do you take long trips in it?
[ALISON]
Yes.
[DAWN]
You got to have a big place if you’re doing, a big band if you’re doing trips. Well cool. I just think, yes, you have so much experience. It’s funny because for people who don’t know you, I’ll just tell them a little bit about how I experience you, is she, so Alison has all these businesses. You even have like how to decorate an office business.
[ALISON]
Oh, yes, I forgot about that one.
[DAWN]
I know. She’s like, what do you call yourself a serial entrepreneur? A serial business owner. So yes, but you have such a chill personality. Like when you’re in person with you or talking, you’re really steady, really calm, which is complete opposite of my personality. I’m like super energetic and say whatever’s in my head and you’re just so calm, which I love. I love that calmness and I’m like, oh my gosh, she’s starting another business.
[ALISON]
Thank you. Yes, that’s always been my personality.
[DAWN]
I love that. So what’s your Enneagram type then?
[ALISON]
I’m a five.
[DAWN]
A five, okay. That makes so much sense. My best friend in the entire world is a five and I always tell her, I’m like, you need a five as a good friend because at least for my personality type, because I’m like, I know you’ll do all the research, so I’ll just ask you your opinion and do whatever you say.
[ALISON]
That is true
[DAWN]
Well, and that’s why one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast today is because I know you’ve worked with so many therapists and I thought, ooh, I’m going to pick Alison’s brain and really dive in on some of my Therapist Matrix theory that I’m developing because I really want to get other people’s opinions who have worked with a lot of therapists. I just launched a podcast episode this week explaining it more, but I’ll just say it again for you and for the listeners. When I’m looking at a therapist’s matrix, what I look at is, I looked up the noun version of the matrix and it says an environment or material in which something develops a surrounding medium or structure and then an organizational structure in which two or more lines of command responsibility or communication may run through the same individual. As I say that, that is what I started looking at as therapists, especially therapists who run other businesses. We have so many lines of responsibility and command along with this heightened sense of self and other awareness and how sometimes that trips us up a little bit, in a short version.
[ALISON]
Yes, for sure.
[DAWN]
So yes, so when I say that, when I first presented that, what are your first thoughts when you think, when you hear that?
[ALISON]
I mean I think about, and I don’t know if this is the lines along of what you were thinking, but I think about how especially therapists in private practice, you have like this business owner hat that you wear and then the therapist hat that you wear. Those are very different things and sometimes those can be at odds with each other and sometimes people really have to sort of think through like, how am I going to be a good business owner and be a good therapist because sometimes it feels like to be a good therapist you have to be a not so great a business owner or vice versa. Yes, so that’s what I was thinking.
[DAWN]
I definitely, that’s when I started realizing it the most is when those things were in conflict and I could tell my team did not appreciate when I had to put my business owner hat on and so I had to really work at molding or melding those together. When did you run into it or do you have a good story of when you’ve seen someone else run into that scenario where, like a real example of how do they conflict?
[ALISON]
Yes, I always think about our perceptions around money because when we go to school to become therapists, that’s part of the brainwashing. Like you’re going to be a therapist, you’re going to be poor for your whole life. It’s just like you’re doing this just because you’re a good person, not because you want to make money and then going into the private practice world realizing like, oh, I could actually make a good amount of money here and I can do both things. I can help people and I can make a lot of money. I think that a lot of people don’t think those two things can be true at the same time.

So I think so many therapists have that mindset of like, if I’m really doing a good service or whatever, I shouldn’t be like profiting from it or whatever, but in order to keep your doors open as a business, you have to turn a profit because you have to have money there if something goes wrong and you need to cover payroll that month or whatever the case may be. So yes, I think for myself even I went through my own journey of trying to pull apart my money stories that I told myself and align that with being a business owner and having the potential to make a lot more money than I did when I was even the director of an outpatient clinic. And I see so many therapists go through the same thing.
[DAWN]
When did you notice for yourself, at what point were you in your practice or your business building that you were like, I have to address this and there was a switch maybe that turned on?
[ALISON]
I think back actually to like the summer of 2018. We were really struggling in terms of our finances as a family. My husband wasn’t working at the time. He was a stay-at-home dad and the practice was doing well, but it wasn’t sort of doing well enough that we still felt like we were living paycheck to paycheck. I knew that I had the skills and I was motivated to make more money and I realized just from listening to different podcasts and reading different books my mindset was really probably the only thing holding me back. So I started doing a lot of being a good Enneagram number five research in reading. One of the books I read was, I think it’s called How to Be a Badass With Money or something like that by Jen Sincero and the whole thing is how she spent the first 20 years of her adult life just so poor and thinking she could never make money and then transformed her thinking around it and then was able to actually make, make a lot of money. So I literally had a journal and there’s prompts in the book at the end of each chapter like, think about this or write down this affirmation or whatever. I had a journal and wrote down things probably for months until I finally got it through my head like, it’s okay, you can make money.
[DAWN]
I love that. I’m going to write that book down because I want to look that up and we’ll put it in the show notes for people.
[ALISON]
Yes, it’s cool. It’s a great book.
[DAWN]
I love books that also have prompts for journaling so you can keep working on it.
[DAWN]
Hi, this is Dawn. I just wanted to come on and say if you are feeling that you want more as you listen to these episodes and realizing, hey, I want more of what she’s talking about, I want more community around my group practice ownership and my spirituality, I want to let you know I am offering a sacred space mastermind that does just that. A Sacred Space Mastermind is a place where it’s an intimate group of four to six therapists and we meet twice monthly where we create space to talk about what it’s like as a group practice owner, a therapist, a person, a parent a friend, all the hats we have, an entrepreneur and what does it mean to listen in to the spirit and make choices based on the spiritual values we hold dear to us.

If that’s something you’re wanting more of, I’d love for you to reach out to me and get more information. I have a mastermind group starting in the fall of 2022 and it goes through to February next year and ends with a soul care retreat that I have here in Colorado. When you join the Mastermind, it automatically puts you at a place for the soul care retreat. Reach out if you’re interested. I have two options, you can either just come to the soul care retreat where it’ll be a group of amazing therapists who really just want to recharge and refuel and really ground themselves and experience some spiritual connection with God and with one another, as well as just a place to relax and be in the beautiful nature of Colorado. We’ll do hikes, we eat meals together, it’s just a beautiful, wonderful space.

I have two retreats going on right now. One is in September of 2022 and one is of February, 2023. I also have two masterminds going, one is already in process and then one starts in the fall of 2022. If you’re interested in any of those, reach out and let me know because this is a space where you can really connect with other group practice owners who are also wanting to intersect spirituality and really grow their practice from a faith-based lens and to integrate that spirituality and receive true soul care in order to keep being the best version of ourselves, the best version of leader that we want to be for our practices. Reach out to me, dawn@faithfringes.com and I will tell you more about it. We’ll jump on a phone call and talk and see if it’s a good fit for you.
[DAWN GABRIEL]
Okay, so that was back, I didn’t realize that, that was only like four years ago.
[ALISON]
Yes. Yep.
[DAWN]
Did you only have one business then?
[ALISON]
No, I had a few. Had three I think.
[DAWN]
Okay.
[ALISON]
No, and that was the same year I bought my building, so I guess I had four.
[DAWN]
Oh wow, okay. Then did you see it like change or, and you just had like an upward trajectory or did you always have to come back sometimes and say, oh, I have to revisit this and keep pushing through this my belief?
[ALISON]
Yes, a lot of revisiting it and then finding other books and other resources and I think too, really challenging the view I think society has of people who are wealthy because I think we all think about the person who’s like driving the BMW and has the designer handbag and all of that stuff. None of that really appeals to me and so when I started to realize like, oh, that’s not really what it’s about, it’s about being able to have freedom of my time, being able to give my kids experiences that I want them to have, being able to help take care of my elderly parents, those kinds of things. Then it was just like, well yes, of course I want to make money to do those things.
[DAWN]
Yes, where it gives you more choices, freedom of choosing how you spend your time. No, I love that.
[ALISON]
Yes, for sure.
[DAWN]
When I’m future planning it’s not so I can have all these material things. It’s like, so we can travel and do experiences together too. That’s more my goals. I love that. You said money was one issue. Our mindset around money is a definite where our worlds intersect as therapists. I’m curious, when you’re working with therapists, are there other times where you feel like, oh, being a therapist doesn’t match up with being a boss? I know I’m like, I can think of like 10 this week in my group practice alone, but I’m curious about yours.
[ALISON]
Yes, I think that when it comes to being a boss as therapists, we want to be all warm and fuzzy and relational and we want our employees to like us and we want to all be friends and there’s issues that come up and you need to set boundaries or you need to be firm with people or whatever the case may be. I think that’s a very uncomfortable place for a lot of people. So that’s a lot of the conversations I have, too, with practice owners. They admit like, oh yes, I probably treat my employee too much like a friend and now I see how it’s gone awry and I need to pull it back and now sort of establish more of me as the boss. So yes, I think what I remind people is that people always like to know where the expectations are and where the boundaries are and I think we always imagine it’s when we just sort of deliver that boundary or whatever the case may be, like it’s going to go way worse than it actually does. What I’ve found is that people really appreciate like that it’s clear and this is the boundary. I don’t tend to get a lot of pushback or a lot of horrible outcome from it.
[DAWN]
Yes, I have noticed that too. You realize I work myself up to have these conversations and then they’re actually really deep and purposeful and people appreciate it. Then I find like new respect for the person, they find respect for me and I was like, wow, I really worked myself up and wasted a lot of energy and so now learning to trust that process, I think. I don’t know if you’ve maybe mentioned this, but I’ve been listening and reading radical candor where it’s like you’re being a hundred percent honest and you a hundred percent really trust, like, enjoy people and respect the relationship. So both of those together mean you have to be brutally honest, but with respect and timing and tone and all of that and it’s like, wow, it’s like set me free.
[ALISON]
Nice.
[DAWN]
That’s what you’re saying
[ALISON]
Yes. One time I had a therapist who we were, we had contractors in the beginning of the group practice and then in beginning of 2020 we switched over to employees and basically their hourly rate for seeing a client had to go down because now I was paying all the payroll taxes and benefits and all those things. So one of the therapists was like, asked to meet with me and she’s like, “I still want to be paid what I was being paid before.” I was like, “Okay, let me think about that and I’ll get back to you.” Then obviously running the numbers, I came back to her and I said, “You know what, I really appreciate you. You’re an awesome therapist. I love having you part of the team, but I can’t pay you that amount because it’s just not going to work from a business perspective.”

I broke down everything I was paying for now that we were going to become W2 employees and she was like, “Oh, I never thought about it that way.” I was like, “Yes, so, actually you’re making the same amount of money. It’s just the money sort of got split up into different pots.” She was like, “Oh, okay.” Going in, so it turned out to be great. She was like, “Okay, I get it,” and stayed and we had a good relationship, but like leading up to that meeting I was just like, “Oh my gosh, what if she quit? She’s my most productive therapist. This is terrible. I’m going to tell her I can’t pay her this amount and she’s going to be up and quit right then.” You think of like the worst-case scenario, but that didn’t happen. That gave me more courage to realize you have to make decisions about what’s best for the business and not any one individual person. I feel like my practice now is big enough that it’s like if one person leaves, it’s not like the whole thing’s going to fall apart. It’s sort of become its own entity even outside of me and so I feel like it will continue on and do good things even if one person’s not there anymore.
[DAWN]
That makes me think of a totally another topic that we could go off on where you have so many systems in place and leadership team and you’ve created that so that it can run without, if one person leaves or if you want to take a month off, you could. I love that that gives you choices too. But yes, I think what you’re saying, like it working up for that conversation, I think you think as therapists we would realize that communication and more information would be helpful, but yes, we work ourselves up on are they going to be mad and are they, it’s like all our issues hits us and we have to move into that. I think group practice ownership has brought up, well I always say it’s spiritually forming, but it’s also personal growth. Like more than most things I’ve experienced in my life. Well, not more but it’s up there. It’s like, oh my gosh, it makes you deal with anything like people pleasing, conflict management. It brings up all your stuff.
[ALISON]
Yes, it definitely does. It’s like the greatest self-improvement program running a business that you can ever go through
[DAWN]
Yes, because you’re going to encounter somebody who triggers something on any, yes, and that’s what I think that Therapist Matrix is so important because have you noticed Alison, when you’re working with therapists, like, do we have a tendency to not want to deal with our stuff? Or what do you, what do what’s your thoughts on that?
[ALISON]
I mean, I think that’s anybody. We would rather just sort of avoid or be distracted by other things than deal with our own crap
[DAWN]
Yes, true. But with therapists, I think we can fake it more because we are, we have the coping skills and emotional intelligence on some level that we fake it a little more in order to not, and then I feel like some people aren’t, like there’s no one to call us on our stuff because we’re the boss, we’re the owner. I don’t know. I thought —
[ALISON]
No, I think that’s, yes, I think that’s true because I mean, we’ve all had that experience, being in the therapy room and your client gets mad at you or your client is whatever and you have maintain your composure and still have it be therapeutic and all of that stuff. So yes, same thing with dealing with employees. You just want to be like, why are you being so ridiculous? But you can’t say that. You have to be like, “So tell me again what you’re feeling upset about and how do we, any possible solutions you can think of to solve that problem,” when on the inside you’re like, why are you being crazy? Why are you asking for this when it’s completely ridiculous?
[DAWN]
Yes, the inner monologue in our head hopefully will never be out. So what do you do to help offset that on a personal level? How do you handle that? Or how do you, I mean, do you just figure it out in your head or do you have other people that help you? How do you, what are some things you do to offset that?
[ALISON]
So when I have those situations where I have to sort of be the boss and maintain my composure when maybe I don’t really want to do that?
[DAWN]
Yes, yes, yes.
[ALISON]
I think, I try to remind myself that my employees have no idea what it’s like to run a business and so they may think they’re asking for something completely reasonable and they don’t. They have no idea what it looks like to run a business and what things cost and what I do on a daily basis. So yes, I think I just try to remind myself about that and also, yes, not to take things personally, also to just make decisions about what’s best for the business and really be at peace with people are going to go, people are going to come. I’m not one of those people who gets all bent out of shape when people say they’re leaving. I’m just like, I get it. You have your own goals or dreams and you want to pursue them and I’m not going to make this a difficult work environment the last month here. That doesn’t, I don’t need all of that negativity in my life. So yes, that’s how I handle those things. Actually, just had somebody email me yesterday and she’s like, “I’m thinking about starting my own practice and I wanted to talk to you about transitioning out,” and I was just like, I emailed her back and I said, “I love everybody. I thought you might start your own practice one day.”
[DAWN]
I love that
[ALISON]
“I’d be happy to talk to you about it. I’m not mad.” It happens people, people come and people go and that’s okay.
[DAWN]
Do you have like a contract that helps that transition of like non-compete or how do you do that? I’m curious.
[ALISON]
I do not have any non-compete. Basically, the only thing it says in their offer letter is that they can’t simultaneously have their own private practice and work for me at the same time just because it gets really messy with like, well, whose client is that really? You know what I mean? So I don’t allow that to happen, but basically if people want to leave, there’s nothing stopping them. I think especially now with telehealth, non-compete closets are dumb. Like, you can’t open an office within 10 miles of our office. Well, then I’ll just get online and start my own practice at my house. There’s no, you know what I mean?
[DAWN]
Yes, it’s shifted a little bit.
[ALISON]
Yes, that’s how I handle it. And I look at my job is to make their life, their work life as happy as possible and satisfied and really feel like they belong and have good relationships with their coworkers and their supervisor and all that stuff. So I figure if I’m doing my job and they’re happy, then they’re not going to leave.
[DAWN]
When they do, it sounds like you don’t take it personally, you’ve really worked that out. Have you always been that way from the beginning?
[ALISON]
No.
[DAWN]
Okay. I’m asking for a friend
[ALISON]
No, in the beginning it was really hard, I think especially because when you only have 6, 7, 8 clinicians, it’s like if one clinician leaves, that’s a huge hole financially, but also, I mean just in the business in general. So yes, it was really hard and I was just like, you’ve been here for six months and now you’re leaving? You know what I mean? That was something I had to learn over time.
[DAWN]
I’m in that process of learning as people come, but I have realized people come and go and there are times where I have to say, I have to look at my contract, I have to look at my culture. But then other times I’m like what, I have everything set. It’s really about them and that’s okay. Like it’s part of life and transition is normal and people aren’t going to stay forever.
[ALISON]
Right.
[DAWN]
Yep, it’s almost like developing an attachment theory for group practice over like you got to look at your attachment styles.
[ALISON]
One day you’re going to fly the nest and I’m going to just have to be okay with it.
[DAWN]
Totally, yes. Well, thank you so much. Any other thoughts as you are thinking of all the lines and responsibilities that cross with the Therapist Matrix? Anything else that stands out to you?
[ALISON]
Yes, I mean I think that just the fact that you’re identifying that is great because I think a lot of times, we don’t think about it and then we feel this internal conflict in these various ways and then we don’t always know how to assimilate that or realize that both things can be true at the same time kind of thing. So I think even just having those conversations can help people and not feel so alone. Also, to realize that you would be helped by realizing that if you have money issues or you have conflict avoidance and that’s affecting your ability to manage your staff, you can work on those things. Don’t just ignore it and not address it because it’s just going to end up hurting your business.
[DAWN]
It’s so powerful just to name things, I think, because usually what I’ve seen is therapists or group practice owners stay in their head or they start spiraling and then into a shame, I call it the shame cave or shame spiral and they don’t get out of it. So then they get overwhelmed or flooded and that either causes inaction or overaction and there’s no balance of, well you know what, all these are true and let’s just look at them. Let’s look at all of it and we can deal with it. We can work through this. That’s why I do think a community of group practice owners, or at least a few friends who also lead a group is super helpful to get out of your own head. It’s like you need that, you need people to talk through this with.
[ALISON]
Yes, for sure.
[DAWN]
Well, Alison, thank you so much for your time. I’ve really appreciated just hearing your thoughts. I always enjoy, I always learn more and take notes. I listen back and take notes.
[ALISON]
Yes, I’m happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
[DAWN]
So you are no longer doing consulting?
[ALISON]
Right.
[DAWN]
I was going to say if people wanted to reach out to you, but that is not a situation that’s available right now, which I could.
[ALISON]
Yes, I mean if anybody wants to get in touch with me, we actually are in the process of changing our URL for my counseling practice, we started out just in Lancaster where I live. So our URL is moveforwardlancaster.com, but we’re going to migrate over to moveforwardpa.com because now we’re going to be all statewide for all of Pennsylvania.
[DAWN]
I love it.
[ALISON]
Yes, so I think my email, hopefully in the next few weeks, is going to be apidgeon@moveforwardpa.com.
[DAWN]
I love it. So how many practices will you have, offices in PA?
[ALISON]
We have the one in Lancaster. We’re going to open one in Hershey, which is about 45 minutes away. We’re going to open one in the suburbs of Allentown and then we’re opening one in Pittsburgh, which is about four hours away. I imagine we eventually will have multiple locations just because the population there is so large. That’s the plan right now. That will probably take 18 months to accomplish.
[DAWN]
I love it though, and I know you’ll do it.
[ALISON]
Thank you.
[DAWN]
Wow, that is awesome. Well, again, thank you for your time. I have really loved this and hope to connect soon.
[ALISON]
Yes, thanks Dawn.
[DAWN]
Thank you for listening today to the Faith Fringes podcast. For those of you wanting to take a deeper dive into your own faith journey, you can grab my free email course, Spiritual Reflections on my website, faithfringes.com. If you’re a therapist and would want to work with me, I offer sacred space holding for you through my consulting as well as my soul care retreats. To find out more, go to my website or email me, dawn@faithfringes.com.

I love hearing from my listeners. Drop me an email and tell me what’s on your mind. You can also connect with me on social media. I’m on Facebook and Instagram at Faith Fringes. As always, if you’re enjoying this podcast, I would love it if you could show it by your reviews. Go to Apple Podcasts and leave your review so that others can find this podcast and get curious about their own spiritual journey. Thanks again for listening.

Faith Fringes is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Faith in Practice, Beta Male Revolution, Empowered and Unapologetic or Impact Driven Leader, go to the website, www.practiceofthepractice.com/network.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.