[DAWN GABRIEL]
Faith Fringes is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Faith in Practice, Beta Male Revolution, Empowered and Unapologetic or Impact Driven Leader, go to the website, www.practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Hi, I’m Dawn Gabriel, host of Faith Fringes Podcast, recording live from Castle Rock Colorado, not only where I love to live, but I also work as the owner of a counseling center in the historic downtown. This podcast is a place to explore more than the traditional norms of the Christian culture. For those desiring deeper connection with God and engaging their spirituality in new ways, this will be a safe place to allow doubt, questions and curiosity, without judgment. We will be creating intentional space to listen in on other’s faith journeys, whether that is deconstruction or reconstruction, with the hope of traveling alongside you on your own spiritual path. If you’re interested in getting even more out of this podcast, grab my free email course Spiritual Reflections on my websitefaithfringes.com. Welcome to the podcast.

Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today at Faith Fringes. I’m so excited today we have a guest. His name is William Hemphill and William Hemphill, II is a counselor, pastor and speaker. As a husband, who’s been married for over 25 years and a father who adopted three children, he understands the rewards and challenges of maintaining a strong marriage and blending a family. In his practice he works with individuals who value their faith, couples who want to strengthen or rebuild their relationships and with adoptive families in building loving connections. He’s the author of the book, Praying With Your Spouse: A Secret To Building Intimacy In Your Marriage. He also has blogs and videos about relationships that can be found at faithandfamilyempowerment.com. And on Facebook, you can find him at William Hemphill, II, Pastoral Counselor, Faith and Family Empowerment. He’s also the founder of the Facebook group Building Spiritually Strong Marriages, and he hosts the Faith and Family Matters podcast. Welcome William.
[WILLIAM HEMPHILL, II]
Thank you so much for having me today, Dawn.
[DAWN]
Yes, I’m so excited. You have so many talents, it sounds like, and are involved in a lot of different aspects that we were, before we were recording, we were trying to figure out, okay, how many of these, you can speak to a lot of them, which one are we going to focus on? I just thought that was funny. We’re like there’s so many.
[WILLIAM]
Well, I always say like, we can just go for it. We can talk, if we don’t finish anything up, then we can always come back and talk late.
[DAWN]
That’s true. We can have more than one episode. Yes. Well we’ve been talking about, in my podcast, I just launched and we have been talking about how spirituality intersects with different things. We have talked about people who have been hurt by the church or maybe have struggled, but they still really have deep down this desire to connect with God but they’re just not sure how to do that. And I think with your blend of being a counselor, a pastor and a speaker and an author and working with your own family, I just think there’s so much nuggets of truth in there. I’m just wondering like what, when you hear about me saying like I’m launching this podcast and we’re talking about people hurt with the church. What comes up when you hear that?
[WILLIAM]
Actually, it’s pretty interesting when you talk about church hurt. There is a saying that goes church hurt is the worst kind of hurt. And I know many people have said that before. I can actually speak to some of that from my own experience. I was in one time, a large church where some scandals did hit, but that wasn’t the biggest part of my church. But I know when the scandals did hit it did damage a lot of people. I remember, I guess when I was getting to that church, when some scandals hit, there were people who left the church, but there were also people who left the faith. So with some of those friends who left the faith, I would try to get them resources just on discipleship and different things like that because they wanted to still connect with God, but a lot of times, for lack of a better term, people can associate God with the pastor or with the clergy or with a particular church.

I like to say, God is so much bigger than that. As a matter of fact, if we look at just the pastor as a representation of God, we’ll fail because pastors are human beings. I can tell you from being one. So as human beings, pastors are subject to the same temptations. And not on the same temptations. I’d say sometimes even more temptations because there’s a lot of power that’s there when you can speak a word and people will act on what you say.
[DAWN]
Yes. That can be scary, a vulnerable place.
[WILLIAM]
Very scary. It’s one of the things that scares me most, is why I try to keep calm and stay humble because that’s a big responsibility to carry. So just thinking about that, if a pastor’s not caring for themselves or has the appropriate structures in place, they can easily use that power, like many other professionals with power to harm people instead of help people.
[DAWN]
Wow. Yes. So what are some things you have in place? You said accountability, but what does that actually mean?
[WILLIAM]
I like to say, have people who know who you are for who you are and will call you out on your stuff.
[DAWN]
Not just as pastor William, but just William.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. I need people to know me just as William, not William, the counselor. Just William. So obviously the first one is, of course my wife, been married 25 years. She knows me very well and she has no problems calling me all that stuff.
[DAWN]
That’s a good woman right there.
[DAWN]
Yes, definitely. Actually I even listen sometimes, bonus from me.
[DAWN]
Maybe we should have her jump on real quick. Let’s see what she says.
[WILLIAM]
So there’s my wife, my children are grown, but they will tell me about myself sometimes. And I like to say, I have a set of friends, especially those who were with me in my early formative years in faith that I can talk to along with a couple of friends who are pastors. And I actually phrase it this way, friends who happen to be pastors. So because of that, we can just talk to each other straight forward about things. So those are some of the structures that I kind of have in place. And then I also have a couple mentors who are pastors who can talk to about different things, but those are some of the structures I have in place.
[DAWN]
I love it. Yes. I was talking, one of my pillars is authentic community. In that I talk about how we need people to not be complacent friends, but to really be able to speak truth in love to us and grow together. And a lot of times we think community is what we see on social media. And I just want, I try to call out, authentic community is sometimes hard and it’s messy, but it’s so worth it and so needed. And it sounds like that’s what you have in those people. You said who really know you.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. Yes, definitely. And I’m so thankful to them because they’ve helped me navigate, I’d say through the course of life, in my ministry journey from pastor to therapist and so forth.
[DAWN]
Yes. I’m just, as you were talking, I was struck with, okay, so he has incredible responsibility as a pastor, but then you’re also, your profession as a counselor is another set of ethics and responsibility. I’m like, okay, this guy has a lot of stuff going like to hold space for such intense and sacred conversations with people. And yes, ultimately, like you said, there’s some power there, but yet not taking that power to the ends degree. And you have to be like you said, be humble and use that to help people. And it’s hard. And I do think having people around you authentically is so important for both those professions.
[WILLIAM]
Well, you definitely have said something very important there. And even as I think about it, and I think I was talking about this a little bit yesterday during our worship service, I was talking about the importance of self-care, or it’s coming from the scripture, loving your neighbor as yourself. And what was interesting as I did my research, that word ‘AS’ can actually be translated, I want to say as much as, or in the manner that it can be translated in the manner that. So you can say, love your neighbor in the manner that you love yourself, which really implies that we love ourselves and one of the important things in helping professions, but for everybody is for those in helping professions to be able to have a balance of self-care. One of the things I’m very mindful of in this pandemic time and pandemic world that we’re in is that people who are in the helping professions are overtaxed, overtaxed, because the need is great. I don’t know if you’ve noticed it in your practice, but I know obviously my practice is pretty full, but also trying to refer people out is a difficult task because a lot of my colleagues have pretty full practices going this side.
[DAWN]
Yes. There’s like a one to three month wait a lot of times and trying to get people in it. Yes, everyone is struggling right now. It’s a year after the pandemic and it’s like a second wave or a long-term wave of PTSD. And the people who didn’t deal with their issues, they think, oh, COVID is getting better. But guess what? My issues are still here. So we’re seeing a lot of marriages and a lot of teens, honestly are our top two here in Colorado, is what we’re seeing, the influx of calls.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. So I actually do a lot of couples work. So I’m working with a lot of couples. I’ve worked with some teams, some too, and it’s interesting, I think one of the factors I’ve noticed is I would say for lack of a better term, even more and more responsible teams and other ones are the ones who were able to do the work virtually and attend class virtually for a lot of time. They’re starting to drop off.
[DAWN]
People are exhausted. I have nine therapists on my team and I’ve, I really had to slow down on my clients because I really wanted to pour into my therapists, like, because you said, helpers need self-care more than ever or they’re going to be spent. And we’re not going to have people who trained, people who are able to give out of nothing if they’re exhausted. So I’m seeing the nation be exhausted right now with things not just COVID but lots of stuff going on, I mean, just so much stuff this last year.
[WILLIAM]
Yes, definitely. Definitely. So that aspect of self-care for all of us is important. And one of the things I like to say is self-care is not selfish.
[DAWN]
Say that again.
[WILLIAM]
Self-care is not selfish.
[DAWN]
Yes, so true. And why do you think helpers tend to feel that way? Or why do you think it’s hard for them to take self-care?
[DAWN]
I think one most people who enter the helping profession actually care about people. Not only do we care about people, we feel like it’s part of our responsibility, especially as people of faith to care for those who are hurting. So we do what we’re naturally gifted to do. The challenge is there’s always a need, always a need.
[DAWN]
24/7.
[WILLIAM]
You’re right. 24/7/365 plus days a year, there is always a need and we’re not designed to feel the need. Even when I think about this, I think about back when I was doing my chaplaincy training many years ago, and I want to say the scripture might be in Mark 4. And I actually wrote on this when I was trying to go through chaplaincy work. What happened in that particular instance, Jesus had just commissioned the disciples. So the disciples are all excited. They’re out praying for the sick, healing the sick, telling folks, folks are wanting to come to the kingdom of God and they’re coming back telling Jesus, all the wonderful things He did. What was interesting about that passage is as you look at it, Jesus says, Jesus realizes they hadn’t had anything to eat. So Jesus tells them to get on the boat. So the disciples have to get on the boat with Jesus and they go into the lake or wherever they’re going. They relax, they rest and they eat. In other words, self-care.
[DAWN]
Yes, basic needs.
[WILLIAM]
They are replenishing themselves. Here’s the very other interesting thing about that. When they did that and got to the other side of that body of water, the crowds were there waiting for them then. So we talk about how there’s always a need, but we have to carve out space to care for ourselves, otherwise we’re not going to be able to take care or help anybody.
[DAWN]
Yes. So true. And even just basic needs like, yes, you need to eat, you need to sleep. You can’t work 24/7. There will be needs, but taking care of yourself on a basic level and even a step more than that, like what makes you feel filled and come alive? Because we need people who are fulfilled and alive helping other people, but when they’re exhausted and resentful or just spent, they can’t give fully from that place.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. That is so true. It really is so true. And I sometimes think part of my work at times is helping people to do that. Even in some of the couples work that I’m doing and some of the things I’m learning, we start talking about care cycles, like when couples are upset with each other and their arguments or they are in that perpetual argument, one of the ways to deal with that perpetual argument is to be able to deal with your own self-care. Because when you’re tired, when you’re hungry, when you’re stressed, when you’re overworked, you become for lack of a better term, it’s harder to get along with as a spouse.
[DAWN]
Yes, totally true. Yes, my husband and I we’ve had to figure out like certain days that like, I know when I used to work and see 10 clients in a day, when I would come home that night, it was kind of known like Thursdays or whatever day it was. no deep discussions, no picking fights, like just really chill. We’re going to watch TV and eat in front of TV with the kids or we’re going to put a movie on and it’s just going to be chill. We’re not going to have intense moments. And so with my husband we had to learn to get really good at communicating when we needed that instead of act, usually you act out and say something that’s harmful or hurtful and instead of just saying, “I can’t do, I have nothing left right now.”
[WILLIAM]
Yes. It’s so true and especially now a lot of us don’t have a lot of energy. I have those days when I’m set up at seven, done and maybe it’s like eight o’clock and fortunately I’m virtual. So it was kind of like, I can just go downstairs. I’m just like food, too. And I don’t want to watch anything intense so I don’t spoil my moods.
[DAWN]
Right, I can’t watch news either. So I wonder, William, what would you say then about self-care being spiritual? Because a lot of times people look at it as no, if I’m in a ministry or if I’m helping people, it’s more spiritual if I keep giving versus saying no and having boundaries.
[WILLIAM]
I think about it this way. Jesus had boundaries. We talk about in the scriptures, how He would go off in the morning to pray, or He would do different things that was part of His spiritual self-care in order to be ready to do the work that He did do. I just talked about the time when He got the disciples on the boat in order, so they could eat rest and relax. And if you notice they were on boats a few times.
[DAWN]
Yes. It must’ve been their happy place to be.
[WILLIAM]
Even as I think about this, some harsh statements that Jesus said, I called the barks, like let the dead bury the dead or the poor you will have with you always. And I was like, Ooh, I would think about those statements, man, they were kind of harsh. But when you think about it, unfortunately we live in the world that there’s going to always be, I shouldn’t say there’s going to always be poverty, but there’s a lot of poverty, just as an example. And not just thinking economic poverty, but spiritual poverty, mental health poverty, emotional poverty, if we decide to use those ways. There’s going to be needs and we cannot feel all of them. I can not remember this pastor. I have some friends of mine, he’s a pastor of a large African-American church. I think it’s up in the Northeast.

Last year, and this might’ve been right before the pandemic or something like that, he took a year sabbatical. I think he had been pastoring that church for decades and I think this was like the first sabbatical he had taken. And it’d been Mike maybe about 17 years or something like that. What was so great was first of all, the church allowed him to do that.
[DAWN]
Yes, they said, go ahead.
[WILLIAM]
Yes, that was a blessing, which meant that that church understood importance of the mental health of their spiritual leader. Why I liked that is because a lot of times, especially when people feel like they’re in need, they don’t understand the importance of those who are giving. So for this pastor to model that was a blessing. Now, what was interesting was that the same time that that came out that this pastor had done that there were, I think two or three instances of pastors who had committed suicide. So I was sitting there wondering the load of ministry, the load of caregiving, it seemed like those who had committed suicide were unable to find ways to grapple with those loads. So it’s so important that we care for ourselves. Part of that important, just thinking along those lines is being able to say no. And I will be honest, this is one I’m working on. I say no to some people better than others.
[DAWN]
It’s so true. And depending on what, I’m imagining, what realm it is, because you have your hands in a lot of different realms and helping professions. So I wonder if there’s one that draws more nos and one that draws more yeses. Yes, that’s got to hard.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. I’ll say it’s easier to say no as a therapist. Well, I will actually rephrase that back. I have an admin now. She does a good job of saying no. Part of that’s being in place because I might fall for the nice story or whatever else, something like that.
[DAWN]
Well, it’s interesting you say that because I have a pastor on my team of therapists and I had to work with him in realizing the difference between therapy at our counseling center versus his parishioners or community. And he had, it took a few months to figure out the difference of feeling that. So I’m glad you said that it is harder to say no as a pastor. I imagine.
[WILLIAM]
It’s harder to say no as a pastor, but I think one of the things, it probably makes me a little different, but because I had my training before I started pastoring in what we call clinical pastoral education, which is training specific for chaplains.
[DAWN]
Okay. Yes. It is a little different.
[WILLIAM]
Yes, it’s a little different, but one of the things they do teach you is the importance of self-care and learning how to set some of those boundaries.
[DAWN]
Oh, wow. I didn’t realize that. And I think the thing that’s striking as we’re talking William, is that you, it kind of like the first topic we were bringing up that pastors are humans and healing professions or helping professions are humans. And just giving them that space to take care of themselves is important. And it sounds like there’s a correlation of not having self-care, not having boundaries, not having accountability can lead to some of the things you were talking about of being human, messing up. And yes, I’m not saying we’re not going to mess up if we have all those things, but I’m talking about when we were saying people get hurt by the church and realizing let’s separate out the church, like small C church from God, people are human, can we still have a relationship with God and based on humans who have heard us. Because humans aren’t, we are going to hurt each other, unfortunately. We live on a fallen world and yes, but just the importance of self-care is spiritual. I had a spiritual director say to me once, I was on a soul care day, which is a full day just to bring peace and awaken my soul. And he said to the group of us, if you need to sleep, that can be spiritual. You might need to take a nap during this day. And that can be just as spiritual as prayer right now.
[WILLIAM]
Well, yes. And it’s very interesting as you said that, because it’s not always the “classified spiritual things.” I don’t know if that’s a term of that, but sometimes people think if I’m going to do spiritual self-care, I’ve got to be praying. I’ve got to be reading my Bible or I have to be doing something religious. No, you might need to go to the gym and lift some weights.
[DAWN]
Yes, that’s going to help you better right now.
[WILLIAM]
Yes, you might need to go with your spouse on a date. You might need to find a movie or comedy and just laugh for a while.
[DAWN]
Yes, laughter. And that’s what I love. I think what happens is, I don’t know about you, but I was raised more conservative, a little more legalistic. So I was used to words like the spiritual disciplines and doing your devotions every day. And it was more of a checklist than an experience in a relationship with God. It was more well, I’m doing all these things, but why don’t I feel connected? And I’m not saying it’s all about feelings, but I love looking at spirituality and going to the gym or going on a date, like finding God in those things or letting Him, letting yourself experience Him outside of the church or outside of the to-do list and the religious list.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. I’m so glad you said that in some way in far as the religious list and different things like that, because it made me think about a term when I was studying and pastoral care, and I think this was African American pastoral care class and the term by Wimberley was called embodied soul. Embodied soul, so what that means is basically our soul and our body and our spirit are integrated in together in living this life that we live on the earth. And part of that with being the embodied soul is that we’re connected to God, your faith and spirituality in all we do. So whether it’s sitting in the church house or sitting on the beach, whether it’s you’re bowing down on your knees, in prayer or you’re driving in your car in prayer, it’s understanding that having faith in God, having faith in Christ encompasses all areas of life. And I think one of the challenges and one of the troubles we get into is, as you say in doing all of the rituals, we can try to separate our faith. I like to tell this, well, it’s not a joke because actually it was one of examiners who used to say it long time ago. He would joke and say what? I won’t cuss you out on Sunday.
[DAWN]
But Monday, however.
[WILLIAM]
Monday, however, is a different story.
[DAWN]
I love that. That just says he’s real. I love real people.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. Number one, he is definitely real, but when you think about it, it shows the difference that sometimes people place on Sunday than Monday.
[DAWN]
Yes, I’m sure he’d get in trouble if he cussed people out from the pulpit, but it’s true. Like there should be no difference.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. Yes. There should be no difference. So that’s why I think about when I talk about embodied soul and when I think about faith and spirituality and I think about my own walk and following Chris., It encompasses everything. And I think that’s what it means in trying to be a disciple, is how am I a disciple in all areas of my life?
[DAWN]
Yes, and just really with that question of what does it look like holistically to connect to God. One of my favorite questions, I’m sure you’ve heard this, the daily examine of asking where have I experienced God today and where haven’t I and just allowing yourself to reflect on that and realizing, can He show up anywhere or am I open to that and where have I noticed it? And it helps you kind of start noticing it more in different areas and not just on Sunday or not just when you open the Bible or not just when you’re praying, but to really open yourself to His relationship, His connection in other areas.
[WILLIAM]
Yes.
[DAWN]
That’s what I thought of when you were saying that.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. I like that you said that. It’s so powerful because when I think about the examiner, one of the things I try to do in worship service, we like to have a time for praises and prayer requests. Sometimes I like to emphasize the praise part because we can easily take the things we have for granted. So like for instance, even as I’m talking to you, I have a glass of water up here that I can drink. That’s a blessing from God. There are a lot of people who don’t have clean water, for instance. Us being able to communicate on this, I remember when we were talking with different people, there are a lot of people without internet or without computers or who don’t have the ability to do what we’re doing right now. Even breaking it down even further, there are a lot of people who can’t even speak right now. So when we recognize those things as gifts from God, we can see where the Lord is working each and every day. And a lot of times it’s not the big miraculous things. It’s in the simple, small things that we can easily take for granted.
[DAWN]
Yes. So it sounds like really just more of like a paradigm shift of what you’re focusing on and taking things for granted versus being grateful and just being aware of how blessed we are.
[WILLIAM]
Yes, definitely. And I like to say it’s a work in progress for all of us. It’s a work in progress for me. But one of the things I tried to do more of is when I start complaining too much, I use that as a signal to step back and say, what can I be grateful for?
[DAWN]
Yes. I love that. Wow. So yes, it sounds like we’ve been talking a lot about self-care and spirituality kind of and enveloping or I mean not enveloping, but going outward to a lot of different things. It’s just funny, because when we were talking before of what are we going to talk about and we’re like, let’s just see what happens. I love it. It sounds like people might need to hear in the helping profession on how to take care of themselves or others might need to hear how spirituality can be more than the religious checklist.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. I really think those, both of those things that we ended up talking about are so important. So those of us in the helping profession, learning how to put those boundaries and put those things in place that help us care for ourselves, especially during this time. Something someone else said to me, trust that needs will be met even if you can’t meet them. You got to put that in God’s hands also.
[DAWN]
Yes, and realizing I’m not God. Like, I can’t hold all of this. I’m not created to hold all of this intensity. I need help.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. We definitely all need it. And then I love the fact that we also talk about for lack of a term spirituality or faith as an all encompassing thing. The rituals of faith are powerful, but if we can move beyond the rituals of faith to understand that God is truly present with us all the time.
[DAWN]
Yes. And I think for me, I notice like when I shifted from rituals to more rhythms and just noticing and being all encompassing, it was more realizing, He cares about us personally. Like I’m trying to think of specific examples of where He personally showed up for me and it was, because I think sometimes when you read about them in the Bible, you’re looking more or at least when you’re learning, you’re looking more globally or more like of a lesson or a value. But when He shows up for my personal experience, that’s what I noticed has impacted me that He really does care and He created my personality and this is how He is shown up in that. I think that’s what helped me realize, okay, let’s start looking holistically at this, my faith.
[WILLIAM]
Yes. Yes. I love it.
[DAWN]
Yes. Well this has been great. if people want to get ahold of you William, or want to follow you, I just wanted to kind of go over again where they can get ahold of you. Because you have some Facebook groups, you have a podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
[WILLIAM]
Yes. I can tell you about a couple of things. So the Faith and Family Matters Podcast, of course we started it just to talk about issues with faith and family. So presently, I think we have about 50 something episodes on there. There’s some morning devotions sometimes and different things where I talk about different topics. We are in the process of probably doing some shifting because I want to do a little more interviewing like we do here. So we will be doing that also pretty soon. Now, in addition, you can reach me at www.faithandfamilyempowerment.com. So that is my company’s site. So of course, if you’re interested in counseling and you’re in the state of Georgia or therapy, you can reach us there, but I also have some blogs on a variety of different topics that you can also read. And then there are links to a couple of videos and we’re always adding and updating and changing the site to do those things.
[DAWN]
Okay. So that’s your counseling one, great. I love that. And in your podcast, is your wife on there? I think I heard you said you and your wife do it?
[WILLIAM]
My wife has been on a couple of episodes. It’s mainly me right now. My daughter will probably join me at some point, because we want to talk a bit about some things about adoption and different things like that also. So it’d be fun to get their perspective of me as the adopted father and her as an adoptive child, because they’re two different perspectives and I do think people when they’re trying to blend families and do that need to understand those things.
[DAWN]
Absolutely. Yes. I’ve seen that a lot in my friends who have adopted, that the needs look very different and adoptive parents do have needs from what I’ve seen. Like it’s definitely not what they thought it was when they signed up and got into it. It’s definitely different and just needing that support and yes, and then the child has different needs as well. That would be a fascinating conversation. I would love to hear that between you and your daughter. How old is she?
[WILLIAM]
She is 19 years old.
[DAWN]
Okay, that would be a fascinating conversation.
[WILLIAM]
So you can contact me those areas. And then the other one, Praying With Your Spouse: A Secret To Building Intimacy In Your Marriage, that is my book that is also on Amazon. It’s a short read and I will say it’s designed for people to have some quick tips on learning how to pray in your marriage. And what I mean by that is my original thought, when I thought about it was really the idea came from a client who really didn’t know how to pray. So he wanted to pray with his spouse so I laid it out for someone, just topic areas, there are sample prayers in the back, there’s several scriptures in the back. And then you have all sorts of areas that probably a lot of times people don’t even think about praying about in their marriage. So almost like a quick little guide book, you could read, take what you need out of it and hopefully it helps to build some intimacy in your marriage.
[DAWN]
I love that. I’m going to look that up for sure. I just really appreciate all that you’ve brought today. I feel like you were really authentic. I know we’ve only emailed back and forth and interacted in Facebook groups, but it was so good to actually talk with you. I just appreciate you being so real and easy to talk to and your sense of humor. So I’m very excited for people to listen in and I hope they reach out to you if they want to work with you or get your book. I I’m going to be looking up your book as soon as we get off here.
[WILLIAM]
I’ll say also when you type that in type my last name, Hemphill. That way it can show up quicker.
[DAWN]
Yes. Okay, good to know. Well, thank you William. I have so enjoyed our time and hopefully people will reach out. And again, that book was Praying With Your Spouse with William Hemphill, it’ll show up faster. And then follow him on Faith and Family Matters Podcast. Thanks so much, William.
[WILLIAM]
You’re very welcome, Dawn. You have a wonderful day.
[DAWN]
All right.

Thank you for listening today at Faith Fringes Podcast. If you want to explore more of your own faith journey, I offer my free eight-week email course called Spiritual Reflections, where you take a deeper dive into your own story included as a journaling workbook that has guided exercises. So if you want to explore more of what you were brought up to believe, or even look at where you may have been disillusioned or hurt, but yet still deep down you desire to authentically connect with God, then this course is for you. Just go to faithfringes.com to sign up.

Also, I love hearing from my listeners, drop me an email and tell me what’s on your mind. You can reach me at dawn@faithfringes.com.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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